Welcome to Dr. Warrick's podcast channel. Warrick is a practicing cardiologist and author with a passion for improving care by helping patients understand their heart health through education. Warrick believes educated patients get the best health care. Discover and understand the latest approaches and technology in heart care and how this might apply to you or someone you love. Hi, my name is Dr. Warrick Bishop, and welcome to my podcast and videocast station. Today, I'm so pleased to have the opportunity for a follow-up interview with James Z. G. Buckley, who's an international expert on hypnotherapy, human behavior, meditation, and leadership. Welcome back, James. It's great to be back, Warrick. Thanks for having me. Look, we really touched on your story last time, and I think I admitted to you, I was quite moved by the journey. You've obviously undertaken yourself to be the person you are now who is able to share and impact other people's lives. And for those who missed it, James shared a remarkable story about a woman who he helped with depression through the processes of meditation and hypnosis to overcome her depression, which she'd suffered for over 10 years, to actually become a world champion skydiver of all things with success on an international scale. A remarkable story. But what I really want to start to tease out is how does it all work? Is it all gobbledygook and chimes and orange clothes? But what's the signs behind it, James? kick us off and bring some science and understanding to what some of the amazing stories that probably many of the people listening will have heard some stories of their own. So talk us through the science a little bit if you could. Sure. And that's a great segue. You don't have to wear orange clothes. You don't have to wear a fancy hat. You don't even have to burn incense if you don't want to. And that's really important that what I share. based on my own experience and my own way of learning is I really wanted to strip away all of the fluff and just find what works because I needed things to work for myself. As I shared in my story, there was some significant challenges there, psychological, emotional, so on and so forth. And so that really drove me to be on a mission to find what works. And so we could say that the programs that I deliver have really trimmed off that fat. And what I'm going to share with you now is purely science. which I think is really important for people to have trust and belief in what it is that they're doing, because if they don't have that trust, then they won't follow through and or they just won't get those results. So the science really quickly, maybe we'll start with hypnotherapy. My background is as a hypnotherapist, I've been studying, researching, practicing and teaching hypnotherapy since 2001. And so it's been over two decades now that I've been studying that and teaching that. And so I'll just share really quickly what actually hypnosis is. based on how I've been taught. Now, as a caveat, I want to say that hypnotherapy and hypnotherapists are like mechanics. You can get really good mechanics and you can get not so good mechanics and some know some things and some don't know some things. And so I'm only sharing what it is that I've learned and how I've learned. So there's three parts to hypnotherapy slash hypnosis that I've learned. The first part is what we call subliminal messaging. Now, most people have heard of subliminal messaging and have a vague idea that subliminal messaging means that your conscious mind is seeing some things, but your unconscious mind is seeing a lot more. And that's exactly what subliminal messaging is. neuroscience has proven that our brain processes 400 billion bits of information every single second, and that our conscious awareness of that is only 2000 bits of information. And so what that means is, is that our conscious mind is only seeing a small amount of what our unconscious mind is actually recording. So when in hypnotherapy, If you're a good hypnotherapist, then you will distract the conscious mind by giving it tasks to do or something to think about while you program the unconscious mind with the thoughts, emotions and behaviors that you want. So really basically, really simply subliminal messaging is understanding that those 2000 bits of information is the conscious mind. And when we give that a task to do, then we can influence that unconscious mind on a really profound level. The second part of hypnotherapy is what we call Pavlovian psychology. We spoke about that in the last segment. It's classical conditioning. Just really quickly, we know that Pavlov had his dogs. Pavlov was ringing a bell, was actually a tuning fork. Based on my research, he was using a tuning fork for that and then showing his dogs a stake. And after a period of time, he could ring the tuning fork and the dogs would start to salivate. Now, if the dogs... were hearing that sound, if he was ringing the tuning fork and electrocuting the dogs, they would not salivate. They would produce a different response. So what that means is that we can create any response inside of us on any stimulus that we choose, meaning we can use one of the five senses, our smell, our taste, our hearing, our sight, or our sensations, our physical sensations, to create a stimulus. to create any response that we want, not just salivate when we hear that sound. So hypnotherapy is really using Pavlovian psychology or that stimulus and response to create really fast reactions in the nervous system and to imprint on the unconscious mind really quickly. Did you have a question there? Yeah. sort of conditions that the mind needs to be in to allow that linkage of a conditioning stimulus and the response? Are there particular things that make us receive that conditioning better or prevent that conditioning from occurring? Yeah, absolutely. There is a scale there, Warrick. And so you would have heard or seen a hypnotherapist swinging a watch or speaking slow and those kinds of things. And it's just... getting the mind to slow down so that it's a bit more susceptible to those things. But when we're talking about classical conditioning and we're talking about Pavlovian psychology, it may be a little bit harder if somebody's stressed or if somebody's engaged in a task that's creating those stress responses, but we can still create that stimulus and response regardless of where we are. However, if we are more relaxed, then it is going to be more profound. It's going to be easier and faster. So, yes, that is true. And the key there is to understand that the reason within Buddhism all of those rituals of sounds and incense and chants and all of these ritualistic behaviours... as I said in the previous podcast, is really Pavlovian psychology as far as I understand it. And so you can use those things to create the response in your brain so that as soon as it smells the incense, it starts to create the chemistry. It starts to create those brainwaves. It knows exactly what to do rather than having to get yourself to that point. So those tools can be used to create a really fast response so that you can get into those states and get those benefits. really quickly. So what's the third component of hypnotherapy? You said there's subliminal programming, I guess, or subliminal messaging. There's conditioning. What's the third thing? Third part is language, or we could call it linguistics. And in hypnotherapy, we see language as two parts. The first part is what we call the surface structure of language, and that is the words that we use, how we engage. We all understand what the word dog is. We all know what a dog is. However, the second part of language, which is what we call the deep structure, is very unique to each individual on Earth. So although we may agree on what the word dog is and what a dog is, our experience and our fingerprint, if you like, of our understanding or deep structure of that word is very different. So to make an analogy that will bring that home, if two children go to a park, one child is given a puppy for their birthday and they learn the word dog, they pat the dog, they cuddle the dog, they play with the dog, that experience becomes the deep structure. of the word. If another child sees a dog gets a dog and that dog bites them on the finger, then although they understand what the word dog is, their deep structure, their experience of that is very different. So understanding that we need to understand what those words mean to us, what language means to us, what meaning we place upon the words that we use so that we can use that to influence ourselves and or as a hypnotherapist, understand somebody else so that we can use those words to influence them. Now, that being said, there are general words, there is general language and language patterns that we can use that influence people in a very general way as well. Does that mean in that linguistic space you need a deep understanding of that individual to know where some of these words could be blocks to there? Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So what we're talking about there is that somebody that has some deep kind of issues that they need to work through, they may need that little bit of extra help from somebody to be able to guide them through that, to tease that information out, understand what's happening under there. But again, like I said, there is general language and general words that do influence in a really general way. So, for example, if I was to say to you, don't think of monkeys for 10 minutes, then you would be influenced only to think of monkeys. And that's a very common experience for everybody, unless somebody was attacked by a monkey or they had a monkey pet and it passed away, then there would be some nuances there. But generally speaking, that would be a same experience for people inside of their mind. I also do an experience where I have people that will imagine squeezing a lemon into their mouth and they can trigger their salivary glands. And, again, that's a really common experience that people will have. But, again, if somebody had a lemon thrown at them when they were a child or something, then that may be a little bit of a different response. But generally speaking, there are general patterns of language that we can use for most people. Great. Okay, so a quick recap. There are three things. Yes. come together in hypnosis one is a subliminal messaging one is conditioning the other is an understanding of the linguistics or the deep meaning of words for individuals i want to tease you out on a comment that you made um about the chemistry that must go on during the time of hypnosis and i'm i'm gonna put you under a little bit of pressure because i'm pretty keen to hear a little bit about meditation too having been introduced to it recently and i'm gonna ask you to maybe talk between the chemistry of hypnosis and meditation. And I'm going to let you know we've only got about five minutes left. So sort of the executive summary for the layperson who doesn't understand much about the chemicals in the brain or neurocognitive messaging. Yes, understand. And that's a really great, great question. So I'll give you a little bit of an experience maybe, and then I'll explain. what's happening when that happens. And so you can follow along if you like, Warrick, and for your listeners, if they want to follow along. And I'll suggest that you just close your eyes and for 30 seconds, just follow along with what I'm suggesting. I want you to imagine that you're at your front door. I want you to open your front door and I want you to walk over to your fridge, open up the fridge and take out a cold lemon. Put the lemon on a chopping board and slice the lemon in half. And as you do so, you may start to smell the zest and pith and sweetness of the lemon. As you do so, pick up one half of the lemon and squeeze the juice in the mouth, careful not to get it in your eye. take your top teeth and scoop out the flesh and start chewing on that flesh and swallow it down. And I can see, Warrick, that you've already triggered your salivary glands. You've done a great job. And for those of you that are following along at home, 90% of people will trigger those salivary glands. And so the reason I'm showing you that is that your thoughts are what's called neurochemical events. And those neurochemical events trigger the hypothalamus to release peptides or proteins. that go into every single cell of the body, and that is what's shaping the chemistry of the body is those thoughts. We have 70,000 to 90,000 thoughts a day, and 95% of those thoughts are unconscious programs. So those thoughts are changing the chemistry of our body, and we can supercharge that to create gratitude, to create anger, to create sadness, to create happiness. joy, we have the ability to exercise those muscles of our emotions so that that's what we experience on a more consistent basis rather than the unconscious patterns that we may be experiencing. And are those processes similar for both meditation and hypnosis? Yes. So just really quickly, the process of meditation, the word meditation in the Tibetan language literally translates to become familiar with. meaning that the process of meditation is to become familiar with the content of our thoughts and our emotions and to observe that. And as we start to observe that and become familiar with that, we can start to choose different directions. If we notice how thoughts are going in this direction and it's not creating the response we want, then it's very easy from that. perspective to be able to change those thoughts to a different pattern. So meditation is really the entry point into the unconscious mind, whereas hypnosis is really just the unconscious mind. It's influencing the unconscious mind, which the conscious mind soon becomes aware of, whereas meditation is going through the conscious mind and into influencing the unconscious mind. Okay. Are they complementary techniques usually? Do you need one and the other or can you do one or the other? How would you see those interplaying? Interesting question. I have not seen anybody using these techniques anywhere in the world. This is just what I've learned from my unique experiences and my unique research. And so, no, I don't see that as a common thing anywhere. Obviously, you can do hypnosis without meditation. You can do meditation without hypnosis. But in my experience with myself and with many thousands of my clients, to bring those two things together is a game changer. Well, I mean, this is absolutely fascinating. Apart from it being educational and apart from me really making my salivary glands trigger before. My own experience with the seven-day meditation challenge that you suggested I have a go at, and there is a link to that. With a bit of luck, we can attach it to this podcast for those who are listening, or go and look up James Z. G. Buckley, seven-day meditation challenge, and you'll find it. My real interest is that I've felt impacted by this process of meditation, and it's... incredibly interesting to hear that these, and I've not explored them, so I'm just finding this like a kid with a new toy. We've got a process meditation where our conscious mind is leading us into ourselves with a greater awareness and then another process that allows us to bypass some of that conscious mind. guide our thoughts. And that's remarkable given we've got tens to hundreds of thousands of thoughts per day and probably many of them are quite erratic without any guidance at all. For someone who's a neat freak and likes order, this is something that's resonating actually. Resonating. That's really what it is about. It's about... organizing or reorganizing your mind so that it's working in the ways that you want so that you're thinking thoughts that empower and support you rather than disempower you and disengage you and creating the emotions that you want again so that you're empowered and excited about life instead of depressed and anxious. It's really getting in the driver's seat of the car and getting your hands on the steering wheel when you use these two sciences together. So I'm going to wrap up soon. But just for those listening, I can let you know that James's meditation on gratitude, which I've been doing, without question has had some impact. I can't stand the traffic. It just kills me. But I found myself appreciative that I had a little bit more time to hear the entire ABC Journal show on a particular topic the other day. Quite out of that. Out of character. And it must have been from my morning meditation gratitude session. And I think this thing really, truly makes a difference. I'm going to thank you, James, for joining me. Thank you, sir. It's been a privilege. It's really exciting to share this information and with people that understand that it's really exciting. I'm going to invite people listening to... Jump on the net. Find this guy's seven-day challenge meditation. Please do it. You might be a more patient driver as well, and that could only help congestion on the roads. I'm really excited about coming back for another interview, if that's good for you, because I'd love to talk about combining this mental care with health. care of the body and that mind-body journey. I'm so excited about doing that, but I'm going to wrap up really quickly now. I'm going to thank those who've been listening. Thank you so much. Till next time, look after yourselves and please don't die from a heart attack. Goodbye. You have been listening to another podcast from Dr. Warrick. Visit his website at drwarrickbishop.com for the latest news on heart disease. 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