Welcome, my name's Dr. Warrick Bishop. I'm a cardiologist, I'm an author and a keynote speaker. I'm CEO of the Healthy Heart Network. I'm all about trying to help people live as well as possible for as long as possible. Heart disease is huge in Australia. Every 20 minutes someone suffers a heart attack. Most of these could probably have been avoided if only we knew what to do. This podcast is all about helping you understand. blood pressure, weight, cholesterol, for better health. If you enjoy this podcast, I would be honored for a five-star review. You can share it with your family and friends. It may well save someone you love. G'day, it's Warrick Bishop here, and thanks so much for joining me on my podcast and videocast station. Today, I've got a return podcast videocast. Attendee, I've got Mark Fox from Rezona Health. He's the developer of a device called Vibe, V-I-B-E. I encourage you to have a look on his website, Rezona Health, V-I-B-E. Mark, I remember because he's direct, he's clear. I love the way he thinks. His background is he was literally a rocket scientist. And he's reached out to me just recently with something that I think is super exciting. Mark, welcome back. And I really look forward to sharing today some of the stuff that you've been working on since we last spoke. Thank you so much for having me. I always appreciate it. This is good. Look, for those who... Didn't catch the previous podcast episodes. They're episodes 371 and 372. And I spoke with Mark about the device that he created called a Vibe. The Vibe produces pulsed electromagnetic field therapy. It's the first of its kind to be a personal pulsed electromagnetic field therapy device. And you literally wear these devices in a pocket. or on a lash around your neck, and they have different programs to sort of support your health and wellbeing in different aspects of your life. So if you've not checked those podcasts out, or if you've not checked out his website, do go and have a look, because it really is an interesting space. And as a consequence of that, in fact, before we leap into this, Mark, we acquired a number of the devices. to share, sell, hire through our own business here in Hobart. And we've had remarkable results from people for all sorts of reasons, sleep, anxiety, general wellbeing, fibromyalgia. So really, a really very interesting space. But you've reached out on this occasion, Mark, because of your device atrial fibrillation. Do you want to just talk historically how you became interested with this post-electromagnetic field device and atrial fibrillation? Because we didn't touch on it previously. Yeah, we didn't touch on AFib at all because I didn't know it could do anything with it, which is not anything I targeted it for. So what it was targeting was vagus nerve stimulation. So it's going to be... slightly different, but in a general, it's going to be in brainwave, alpha and theta in that range is frequencies, um, which is kind of the relax rest and relax balance. Delta is where you'd be in deep sleep. Beta is where you're at most of the day. Alpha and theta is kind of in the middle. So, um, I actually got asked many times about vagus nerve and what do you have for that? And I'm like, man, nothing really. Cause I don't know a lot about it several years ago. Then I start to research it and figure out. how much stuff vagus nerve can really do if you get it toned correctly. And for people that don't know, vagus nerve is, I think it's the 10th cranial nerve. It's in your brain. It comes down both sides of your neck. It clusters around your heart and it goes to all your organs. It's the super highway of communication between the brain and the organs. So the brains tell the organs what to do and vice versa. It's a big feedback system. And there's just a lot, a lot of research out there now that says, If that's not in balance, then you actually can't heal, right? You can't sleep and a lot of things. So that's what it is. It's trying to get it entrained or get your vagus nerve toned. And the vagus nerve, we're finding out, we, the entire industry, of how many things are tied to that. Gut issues, headaches, sleep, all kinds of things that you would think don't have anything to do with this vagus nerve. They do. And so AFib specifically was customers contacting me going, this is doing some miracles on AFib. And I'm, I'm learning going, what did it do? And it's like, and she's the lady's. So the first lady was so excited and like hysterical crying almost. She's like, nothing has worked this well. She goes, my AFib has been at 97%. I go, what does that mean? I didn't even know. I go, and then she's explained, I go, I guess high is bad. You want the lowest AFib, right? And she goes, yeah. So my Apple Watch shows 97%. I ran the device like you told me to for vagus nerve toning, and my AFib dropped to 2%. And I go. Jump in there, Mark, because there's some nice anecdotal stuff. But what I might like to do, if I could, is set a little bit of. groundwork if you like for those listening uh you're 100 correct about that vagus nerve does come out of the brain i think you're right it is cranial nerve 10 and it runs right through the body i want to remind people who are listening and watching that the vagus nerve is part of the automatic or the autonomic, we call it autonomic, but automatic works, nervous system that the body uses to regulate what we do. And they're things that we have regulated for us without us thinking about it. So the vagus nerve is rest and digest exactly as you alluded to. So it has a big impact in slowing us down, has a big impact in the gut. But that's offset by what we would call, and our general term for that vagus nerve system is the parasympathetic. Parasympathetic. That is offset and needs to be in balance, which you alluded to, with the sympathetic nervous system. Sympathetic. And the sympathetic nervous system is the fight. flight response. So we've got a fight and flight. We've got a rest and digest. You're incredibly on the money with those needing to be in balance. When it comes to atrial fibrillation, we normally think of the fight and flight as being the driver for people going into atrial fibrillation. Often stress, anxiety might do it. Stimulation. through things like illness, things like cardiac surgery, these things will kick off atrial fibrillation. So for the bulk of people, or for a large number of people, it's often an excitatory trigger that starts atrial fibrillation off. But that's not the case for everyone. And there's almost certainly a requirement for some balance. And when we look at athletes, athletes in particular, who seem... fit and well, will often have very high vagal tone. And that means that their heart rates are slow, they rest and digest very well. But these athletes, for nervous control reasons, and also for structural reasons, because they've really been training and putting their heart under different loads, can be at increased risk of atrial fibrillation. And that atrial fibrillation is thought to be driven by overactivity of the vagus nerve. Interestingly, over the years, I've had many patients have episodes of their atrial fibrillation linked to digestive issues, particularly upper GI digestive issues. And so historically, over the years, I've had it. cluster of patients where i've recognized that balance that you're alluding to mark is so important so i've treated these people with things too if you like bring the sympathetic system under control, but I've also used tablets to control the parasympathetic nervous system. And if you like, try to bracket that autonomic system so that we're reducing the sort of extreme fluctuations too high and too low and have had remarkable success. So tell me more about how... I hope you don't mind me jumping in there, but I hope that offers a little bit of background for people listening. Tell me a little bit more about this particular lady, but what sort of protocols did you set up on your Vive device and how did she tend to use it? And just to comment, because I can't explain it as good as you just did, but the analogy I'm using in my book is the two systems, one picture car, one is the gas, one's the brake, and you want to be in... cruise control for the most part, right? That's in some kind of control. You don't want to be flooring the gas and holding the brake at the same time, which gets you out of control, that type of thing. So to answer your question is there's a real big study put out on that showed brainwave beta was doing a lot for vagus nerve. What's interesting about the study is, and that's the first pass we went down was brainwave beta. This study was done with reporting only how people felt, which is very, very important. But the data that we were showing said brainwave alpha and theta, we're actually getting better measurements with heart rate variability. So as you know, increased heart rate variability is in the direction of goodness. You want heart rate to come down, but you want your heart rate variability to go up. It makes you more balanced on the fight or flight thing that you were just describing. So what we've The guy that first did the study, I explained it that way. Heart rate variability goes, which heart rate variability? That's when I learned SDNN and RSMD and all these different ways to measure it. The good news is I wrote three different protocols to try and look at it in alpha-theta range. The good news was they all worked. They all worked. One of them is a little better here. This is a little better here. You can talk to this. way better than me power levels and stuff that all the things we were measuring in this third in the lab was like, which parameter do we pick? Cause I got to pick one to put on the device, right? They're all doing good, but which one's the best goodness. And I was convinced from this doctor that SDNN is the best long-term heart rate variability measurement. So that's what we got. Yeah. Yeah. So the one, the problem is most wearables. Don't measure that. In fact, ours is the only one that does that I know. Most of them are measuring the RM SSD. But in any event, so your heart rate variability, and it's not intuitive to me, it wasn't, is that you want to go up. In fact, the first study where it went up 55%, I said to this doctor, I'm like, I don't know if that's very, he just cut me off. He goes, what do you mean it's not good? He goes, athletes would pay a lot of money for it to go up 5% or 10 just so they can recover faster and be. at the top of their game, those types of things. Like, okay, so we've shown up to 55% increase. Me personally, my heart rate variability, I'm 63 years old. So it should be lower as you're older, but mine was like 15 milliseconds, which is not good. Mine's consistently now at 55 or 60. Now for an old 62 year old man, chat GPT tells me anything over 40 is excellent for a person as old as me. So if I can keep it at 55, 60 in that range. And the cool thing about the study is we did all this with one 30 minute session. We don't even have the data yet that we're running it right now for what does this do after two months of using it three to four times a week. So that's super exciting is to have that much of improvement in 30 minutes. But I'm again, I'm a part of the chapter I wrote the other day is like the difference between you and a doctor and blah, blah, blah. No offense. I can, and I talked about an investor that said, I screwed up something really bad on a project once. And he's like, Mark, you're working 10 projects for me. If you get one of them right, where we make money, we win. So I can be wrong 90% of the time. He's still happy. A doctor can never be wrong 90% of the time ever. Okay. So I have an advantage. I get to go tinker and play and do stuff fast and quick and mess with things where a doctor like you doesn't have that liberty or craziness. But it's like, that doesn't work. Go test us and do stuff fast. So it's, yeah, it's fun. The whole AFib thing is like, we're just getting ready to go try and launch a study with it. But again, it's customers coming to us going, hey, this is what it did for me. Let me speak to that momentarily if I can, Mark, because that's actually a pretty important message that we can get out through this. interview, and that is that we really are constrained by the research that's available when it comes to offering therapies for patients. There's no question about that. We are completely constrained by that. And we have guidelines and recommendations and so forth. But we're also in a position where we can offer people consideration of slightly different therapies outside of the norm, as long as we're comfortable that those therapies wouldn't do any harm. And we've had an open and clear conversation with those individuals about that particular therapy. And as you're talking about using a vagal protocol for your VIBE device, I think it falls in that category. I think we could say quite reasonably that we've not seen any adverse outcomes from the use of post-electromagnetic field therapy. And I've looked at it quite extensively because it's a really interesting space. We may not have robust data that says it could help someone, but there is certainly circumstance and situation where we might be dealing with a patient who's gone through all the standard therapies. They're looking for something a little bit different. I think a doctor could quite reasonably say, this is where our understanding is. These are some of the theoretical reasons why this might be beneficial. I don't know if it would be helpful in you or not, but I'm pretty comfortable. There's no suggestion it would be detrimental. Why don't you try it out? And I think we can do that. That's anecdotal. It doesn't satisfy. the requirement for some robust data down the line, and you and I will talk about that off air. But I think doctors can offer guidance around therapies which may offer some benefit, even though the data may not be there yet. And then... You're right, but there's more and more data all the time. When I tell people there's 35,000 published papers on PMF, they go, what? How is that possible? Just go to PubMed and type in PMF, you'll see 6,000 right there. So it's almost the reverse thing that I'm seeing that's exciting is I get doctors calling me because their patient put it in their face, right? So people are... If doctors were a hundred percent successful, they wouldn't know anything about this technology because people wouldn't come to it. Right. So they come to it because the side effects of the drug they're taking, they hate, or they've been lied to about the statin world thing. And yes, they all have muscle pain. They want to try something else. And literally they go try it. And I get a lot of wholesale clients from doctors from particularly a type two diabetes, blood sugar, whether this, this has happened so many times going off AFib for a second. The doctor goes, finally, finally, your A1C is at 5.2. You finally started doing what I told you to do and change your diet and exercise and did all this. No, I didn't do any of that. I just started using this thing. What is that? And then they call me. What is this thing? And that's how I get customers. I start explaining what it is and it's like, okay. But yeah, so it's most people, I always say this, most people that will come to this technology are either long-term physically or mentally ill or. or suffering or both because nothing else has worked for them or they're just not happy with the solution was given to them. So it's not their first choice. Almost nobody's is like, oh, I'm going to go find out about this stuff or hear about it because I'm looking for an alternative solution. Perfect example. You're a doctor. How many doctors have told somebody with fibromyalgia that's in their head and it's not real? Common story. Tons of customers are so frustrated with it's in your head. There's nothing wrong with you. Go home and quit crying. Right. And it's like and it works really well for fibromyalgia. Things like that. Lyme disease is another horrible, horrible thing that isn't a good solution that this can really help with. So we can go down all those tangents. But that's how people find this technology is they're not happy with where they're at today. So let's let's swing back around. Let's keep on atrial fibrillation. let's make an assumption that there could be a number of people who have tuned into this but don't have much understanding of what pulsed electromagnetic field therapy is in a very simple, non-rocket scientist way. Could you explain your understanding of how this technology works? Yeah, I'll try and explain it at a higher level. This is my take on it. It's energy transfer. Nothing in the world happens without energy transfer. You don't breathe oxygen. You don't cook food. You don't fall down and hurt yourself. You don't drive a car. You don't get sunburns. Everything is an energy transfer. So energy can be transferred to the body with electrical current, magnetic fields, vibration, sound, and light. It can be any of them. And everyone knows light, sunlight, vitamin D, right? So PMF is just a fancy pulse electromagnetic. It's a fancy way to deliver the energy. It's my choice because of usability and easy. You put it in your pocket. I don't have any wires on me. I'm not confounded to a clinical environment. I can go about my day, go on my walk, work at the computer, whatever. So, and I make this argument a lot is we don't know exactly how it works and nobody knows how aspirin works either or any drug. You have theories, but you don't actually can't prove that's how it works. So if you just keep that in mind, it's like, What we do know is two things. The cells in your body have a voltage on it. And if the voltage drops, like a car battery, you can get sick and the cell doesn't work as well. The cell needs to get good stuff in and bad stuff out at the membrane. And you've got to have voltage potential to do that. This raises the voltage. It recharges your cell's battery. That's number one. Number two is adenosine triphosphate ATP. I always say it wrong. It increases that up to 500%, and that is the main fuel that your cells use, that your body uses for energy. So increase voltage on the cells, increase the food supply, so your body can heal itself when it does that. That's the simplest terms that everyone in this space agrees on. That's what's happening. Now you can go into all these details of other stuff, but that's the high level of what we think is happening. It affects the entire body even though your device is a small device that you've got essentially localized over the heart or in your pocket. And people that have big machines will make, okay, the one guy that says bigger is better in this space is the guy that sells big machines. And he will make that exact argument. It's got to have huge power to cover the body. My rationale is it does not for a number of reasons. Number one, it's resonating with the water in your body. Okay. Like a pebble in a pond. So the energy is there, but it's resonating with the water. So it can transfer that way. Your skin and your organs are electrically conductive. They have high resistance, but they're electrically conductive and an alternating magnetic current is going to make a small electrical current. So most people in PMF world will tell you those two things. Third one that nobody's saying, but Mark and somebody go prove me wrong. I'm saying magnetite in your cells, which is. what birds and turtles use for migration. It was thought for a long time that humans don't have magnetite for cells, but we do. So that's been discovered and magnetite is a magnet and magnets can transfer energy. So my theory is if you got magnetite in your body, that's a third mechanism. Now, antidotally, how do we know we get full body coverage is you can heal a broken foot by putting it in your top pocket. Yeah. The magnetic field can't reach that far on its own, right? And then you can get an old weird scalar energy things and stuff I don't believe in. But that's the simplest way of resonating with water in the body. The reason we really, really believe that is because across the board, not our device, every PMF device, if you're not hydrated or have proper electrolytes in your body, it doesn't work as well. It still works. Like one of the new products are coming out is our own electrolyte powder. I mean, Liquid IV owns 80% of the market, but specific for PMF, there's studies that show magnesium really helps with the efficiency. So we have more magnesium in our formula than most. So we'll see how that works. But I would say you get full body coverage with just a small device. I think we've had, well, we've probably gone over time. which I knew we would because I really, really enjoy speaking with you. I'm going to give you something to think about when you're talking to other doctors, when you're talking about aspects that we don't understand. I think you will arc some doctors up who'll say aspirin works through cyclooxygenase and works through a number of different mechanisms there. So we would agree that we probably teased out aspirin a bit. why don't you use fish oil as your example? We know that works, but we really don't know how. So swap aspirin for fish oil. Okay, I'll do that. You won't get anyone picking back at you. I reckon that was absolutely fantastic. For those who are listening, if you're in the States, then particularly reach out to Mark. at rezonahealth.com. Rezonahealth.com. R-E-S-O-N-A, Rezona. It's short for residence. Rezona.health. There's no .com. Rezona. Thank you so much. Rezona.health. Because he could deliver, get these devices delivered to you. They're approximately, are they $400, $500 US? $399 US. We have them on sale right now for $299. And what's kind of important is we ship worldwide for free. Fantastic. Well, we also hold them here in Hobart. So if you want to get in touch with me, we cover, I was going to say we cover some of those costs in transfer. We also get them a bit cheaper. So we can probably save you some money compared to the website price. If you're here locally in Tasmania or if you're in Australia, reach out. to me via the drWarrickbishop.com website and we can help you. You can ask some questions and we can get advice to you because of the exchange rate and various other things we can. Great, for sure. Good point, thank you. Look, other than that, anything else you want to wrap up with, Mark? No, just I say this a lot of times at the end is if you don't know this technology, just... You don't have to understand the technology. You don't have to know how it works for it to work. So give it a try. The cool thing that we're finding is if you don't see a result in 30 days after three or four times a week, it's not going to work for you or you're using the wrong protocol. So it's not a one-year investment in your life to see if it can help. It's short. Yeah. And look, I can echo that sentiment we've had, as I said. anecdotal experience through our centre where people have reported amazing responses. And I have to say, this technology is very left field from where all my training was. I am completely open to the way it seems to have an effect. So I think seeing some of these studies will be really valuable. As a quick wrap up, atrial fibrillation really does cause a lot of... mortality and morbidity. And that morbidity is recurrence and the impact that has on people's daily functioning. If this device really can help and, you know, these anecdotes, these stories of building that case, then it's certainly something that people should be aware of and may want to explore for themselves. With that, I'm going to wrap up. Mark, absolute delight to speak with you again. Again, really appreciate you reaching out. Really appreciate your sharing. It's great to see you again. Thank you so much. And for those who are listening, if you've got any queries or questions, drop us a note at info at drWarrickbishop.online. And as always, I really appreciate people tuning in and listening, and I hope you've learned something valuable and useful for your own best healthcare journey. Till next time, I hope you live as well as possible. For as long as possible, take care and bye for now. Join the Healthy Heart Network and become part of our growing community. 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